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Author Topic: need input to help explain Mckennas ideas
qemi
Elf
Posts: 4
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Post need input to help explain Mckennas ideas
on: April 29, 2013, 08:32
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I'm working on a project to clarify TM's ideas and would love your input. I'm going to ask simple questions, that a reductionist might ask.

Question is#1: McKenna find significance in visions experienced under the influence of psychedelics. McKenna describes it as vast, dense and alien. Science/would explain this as a disturbance in brain chemistry or psychosis.

How would you explain this to a person that thinks this way?

Have fun!
Thanks, Elizabeth

foxfire
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Posts: 723
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Post Re: need input to help explain Mckennas ideas
on: April 29, 2013, 09:21
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You can't explain anything to someone who doesn't want to listen to any view contrary to their own. To 'explain' visions as due to 'brain malfunction' is no explanation, but simply a dogmatic refusal to consider anything that might challenge the orthodox materialist assumption that only 'matter' is real and that the entire content of any individual's experience is merely a delusion or at best a projection (onto a lifeless universe).

When you remember that according to scientific materialists, 'red roses' are not really red ('red' is, according to them, nothing other than a particular pattern of brain activity in the brain of someone whose retinas are receiving electromagnetic waves of a certain frequency) then it's not hard to tell who's really crazy.

Zarquon
Administrator
Posts: 281
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Post Re: need input to help explain Mckennas ideas
on: April 29, 2013, 20:36
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Hi qemi.

I think Mckenna made his own position quite clear on several occasions - I could provide links to some relevant lectures if you'd like.

If you're interested in my (less eloquent) distillation I'm happy to oblige.

(BTW sorry if I'm misunderstanding your words. Ambiguity can be assuaged (some what) through clarification - time well spent when discussing unusual topics).

Parsing your question in reverse order -

How would you explain this to a person that thinks this way?

Concerning a stereotypical, utility driven person - I'd agree with foxfire (in that I probably wouldn't attempt to - such an attempt more often than not being futile).

I'd equate 'thinks this way' to 'believes this to be true'. Such beliefs do not arise in a vacuum. Ideologies are usually only renounced when they are seen to fail as an 'in group/out group' strategy - 'Scientism' (to which I believe you are alluding) is alive and well.

Science/would explain this as a disturbance in brain chemistry or psychosis.

The intentional disturbance of brain chemistry plays a huge role in 'everyday' human society. Not just in regards to the ingestion of substances such as legal psycho-actives (caffeine, etc), but especially through activities that provoke the release of neurotransmitters/hormones (having sex, gaining wealth/status, participating in or watching sport, etc).

(Outside of genetic conditions) 'Psychosis' is a qualitative description of human behaviour. It's definition is subjective.

McKenna describes it as vast, dense and alien.

McKenna find significance in visions experienced under the influence of psychedelics.

Our own minds are vast, dense and alien.

Evolution does not just apply to genes. All systems drift without pressure - This includes your own consciousness.

Psychedelics act as an imposition upon the established, repetitive mechanisms that facilitate your own personal evolutionary drift.

A strong psychedelic dose will not just give you an alternate perspective (something many people would benefit from) but will completely destroy you dissolve your boundaries.

Or even dissolve your boundaries' boundaries...

freakwhens-
eas
Eschaton
Posts: 102
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Post Re: need input to help explain Mckennas ideas
on: April 30, 2013, 20:17
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We're all on drugs, all the time

Largely because, well, we're made of drugs

HerbalYogi-
st
Elf
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Post Re: need input to help explain Mckennas ideas
on: April 30, 2013, 20:21
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Terence tried all of his life to make his "radical ideas" -mainstream or scientific. He put all of his experiences under the empirical method that all scientists use. I think the problem was that he was finding ways of doing this very well... he just simply did not have enough time and in the end he probably realized it wasn't "time," but was just "the way it was." The dogmatic world of materialistic science had not yet changed enough....but Rupert Sheldrake currently is doing an excellent job right now of busting science's bubble of materiality...and if it is busted good enough I believe Mckenna's theories will be re-ignited and will re-emerge and even now there are several people doing this... and in a few years things will look much different.(tentacles crossed) The intelligence level is there now...I have met hyper-intelligent people such as Mckenna myself....albeit in not as advanced/activated of a form...but like I said the intelligence factor is at least there...we just need people ACTUALLY experimenting...and then putting that into theory with a good amount of evidence to support the theories...and as of current there are only a few fringe and cutting edge scientists doing EXACTLY so. :/ I know Rupert is one of those...John Anthony West has done a terrific job with all things Egyptian ...Graham Hancock, Daniel Pinchbeck, Rick Strassman, etc. etc. We need more...that's why I urge everyone to investigate seriously the invisible landscape that is all around YOU.

EcafRuoy
Eschaton
Posts: 112
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Post Re: need input to help explain Mckennas ideas
on: May 2, 2013, 14:58
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If a vision provides information that is/was previously unknown or unknowable to the receiving party... then the origin must be non-local. McKenna suggested that each naturally occurring compound had a logos or intelligence that conveyed this non-local information via personally tailored experiences/visions.

Zone Ghost
Shaman
Posts: 98
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Post Re: need input to help explain Mckennas ideas
on: May 2, 2013, 23:41
Quote

Quote from qemi on April 29, 2013, 08:32
I'm working on a project to clarify TM's ideas and would love your input. I'm going to ask simple questions, that a reductionist might ask.

Question is#1: McKenna find significance in visions experienced under the influence of psychedelics. McKenna describes it as vast, dense and alien. Science/would explain this as a disturbance in brain chemistry or psychosis.

How would you explain this to a person that thinks this way?

Have fun!
Thanks, Elizabeth

Terence once said something to the effect of...

It is not an ideology , it is an experience.

To those who are curious , regardless of who they are even if it is a scholar's curiosity or academic interest as they say.

My answer to your question would be that you do no explain it to someone who " thinks this way "

Ask them to have the experience.

Then listen to their explanation of it , compare it to your own and progress from there.

Zone Ghost
Shaman
Posts: 98
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Post Re: need input to help explain Mckennas ideas
on: May 2, 2013, 23:47
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Mckenna's Ideas...

I never met Terence and I miss him

When I listen to this excerpt it resonates with a part of me that confronted these notions at a visceral level well before I ever knew what drugs where.

That's the heart of Mckenna's Ideas as far as I'm concerned.

Zone Ghost
Shaman
Posts: 98
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Post Re: need input to help explain Mckennas ideas
on: May 2, 2013, 23:53
Quote

Quote from qemi on April 29, 2013, 08:32
I'm working on a project to clarify TM's ideas and would love your input. I'm going to ask simple questions, that a reductionist might ask.

Question is#1: McKenna find significance in visions experienced under the influence of psychedelics. McKenna describes it as vast, dense and alien. Science/would explain this as a disturbance in brain chemistry or psychosis.

How would you explain this to a person that thinks this way?

Have fun!
Thanks, Elizabeth

An alternate answer to your question.

Following the axioms of your question.

"McKenna find significance in visions experienced under the influence of psychedelics"

and why is this so...

Perhaps in the altered state the mind is free from barriers and can more freely make use of its own problem solving powers.

Thats one possible answer and one that doesnt stray from convention , hasn't it been said that psychedelics dissolve ego , wouldnt ego be one of those barriers.

/:set\AI
Visionary
Posts: 32
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Post Re: need input to help explain Mckennas ideas
on: May 5, 2013, 00:18
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until you experience the confoundment of - say- mutually confirmed precision precognitive vision and hearing - you will never understand how there can be no classical explanation for anything- human science is ignorant about the dynamics of Time-

Image

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